celwyn
Circle of Knights
Posts: 23 
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Post by celwyn on Nov 3, 2013 14:55:46 GMT
We had an althing yesterday on the pros and cons of Bitter Coast staying with Goldenvale, joining Crystal Groves or remaining a freehold.
I can't remember all the disussion but I will post what I do remember. Also, in the interest of good communication I had e-mailed the queen of Crystal Groves letting her know that although I was personally against us leaving Goldenvale, she could come (we are an hour away from her home park) or send a representative or a letter to be read at the Althing.
The Crystal Groves Kingdom Prime Minister did show up. I asked him what that meant, if we had support of the Kingdom Monarchy of Crystal Groves. He said our petition would be processed, should we choose to leave Goldenvale. I asked him if that meant that we had support from the Kingdom Monarchy should we pursue that route. I emphasized the need to be straightforward and speak plainly. He said their Kingdom Monarchy had been discussing the possibility of us seeking sponsorship from Crystal Groves and we would have support from most of the local park monarchs.
Sir Darva mentioned that he is transferring his credits at the end of this reign to Crystal Groves because of transferring to Norfolk and playing in the park there and advised us that this vote would affect the rest of us more than him.
Some of the cons for leaving Goldenvale: GV is very far away. GV is going to floating crown and we wouldn't be able to participate.
Some of the pros for staying with Goldenvale: GV has a more experienced leadership. GV has good transparency. GV monarchs have been willing to listen to award requests. GV is appreciative of what we bring them. I mentioned the monthly Kingdom officer meetings. CG PM said yes, the last few reigns KCG has not had them.
Some of the pros for seeking sponsorship with Crystal Groves: They are closer. We would be able to not only vote but run for Kingdom office.
Some of the cons: Shady dealings by the monarchy of KCG. It was mentioned that the KCG Monarch and PM "Borrowed" up to two months worth of their 10% at one time without an althing vote. Although they paid it back, we felt it was wrong to do so. CG PM said he agreed with us and has rewritten the corpora to try and prevent it happening again.
Lack of enforcement of child safety procedures. There were two issues just this year. The first was a minor who was brought to an FoF event and said at troll that she left her wallet behind. She was allowed on site without a parental waiver and no proof of age. Her boyfriend had a restraining order. When this was reported to KCG (who failed to enforce this at troll after making numerous announcements that they'd be on top of it) they took four months do do anything, at that point the member had moved to a freehold. They did not call the mundane authorities. Eventually they banned the member but at that point, MHOG and others had been called in.
The second incident was recently, a member of duchy threatened the life of a two-year old child. Again the mundane authorities (police) were not called. CG PM said "Duchy banned him, that's duchy's responsibility."
The CG PM was asked if we would be demoted to a shire if we joined them, and the answer was that it was a likely possibility. I asked if that would be applied to other groups in the Kingdom who were not operating at their on-paper status and was told that would be up to the monarchy.
We then held a vote and unanimously decided to stay with Goldenvale.
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Post by Kevin on Nov 4, 2013 19:50:27 GMT
"Some of the cons: Shady dealings by the monarchy of KGV. It was mentioned that the KGV Monarch and PM "Borrowed" up to two months worth of their 10% at one time without an althing vote. Although they paid it back, we felt it was wrong to do so."
KGV = Kingdom of Goldenvale? When did this happen? (Though from the context, I think KCG was meant)
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celwyn
Circle of Knights
Posts: 23
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Post by celwyn on Nov 4, 2013 22:21:32 GMT
"Some of the cons: Shady dealings by the monarchy of KGV. It was mentioned that the KGV Monarch and PM "Borrowed" up to two months worth of their 10% at one time without an althing vote. Although they paid it back, we felt it was wrong to do so." KGV = Kingdom of Goldenvale? When did this happen? (Though from the context, I think KCG was meant) You are correct. I am GUILTY of improper acronym useage. I'll fix it. |
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Bowen
Circle of Knights
Posts: 105 
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Post by Bowen on Nov 8, 2013 10:52:40 GMT
Sounds like that wound may be healing. Shitty officers and shady dealings are nothing new to Amtgard, it is my sincere hope that with the high moral bar that Bitter Coast holds that fewer of issues like those mentioned will happen, and if they do, will be dealt with appropriately.
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celwyn
Circle of Knights
Posts: 23
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Post by celwyn on Nov 8, 2013 21:44:11 GMT
Sounds like that wound may be healing. Shitty officers and shady dealings are nothing new to Amtgard, it is my sincere hope that with the high moral bar that Bitter Coast holds that fewer of issues like those mentioned will happen, and if they do, will be dealt with appropriately. I disagree, it seems like all our suggestions fall on deaf ears. It seems that even though KCG swore up and down that they would check IDs at FoF, they didn't. When alerted to the problem, they decided to play "Amtgard cop" and investigate, instead of reporting a crime (transporting a minor across state lines). Our own child-safe procedures require reporting to the authorities in the event a crime is suspected. And again, with the player being banned in duchy, no authorities were alerted. We get a shrug when there may be legal (or at least ethical) responsibilities if the player travels to another LARP and hurts a kid or does so in the mundane world and the park officers didn't care/didn't understand the need to report the threat. Finally, when asked point blank if the Crystal Groves Kingdom monarchy would support Bitter Coast joining, the answer was "the local monarchy mostly supports it." I interpret this as the Kingdom monarchy of Crystal Groves either doesn't want Bitter Coast to join and would actively attempt to thwart the process through red tape or would not take an active role in convincing the sponsored groups to vote yes, and make us feel welcome. It shouldn't be up to local monarchy to lead. |
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Post by verosse on Nov 9, 2013 4:22:09 GMT
As the parent of the child who was threatened in the Duchy of Crystal Groves, I would like the opportunity to clear things up about that specific event. First of all, it is honestly my fault that the police were not called in nor an investigation done. I did not notify the Officers of our park at the time of what had occurred because he was already going to be suspended for other reasons. The way that specific player was talking made it seem like he had no interest in coming back, even after his suspension would end. We are also a very close park (my son has his Mom, Dad, Aunts, Uncles, Grandparent, and Godmother at our park) and I was a little concerned that the news of the threat may cause someone to think (or react) emotionally rather than rationally at the time. With those things in mind, I decided not to bring it up to the Monarchy. As one of the parents of this child and the only person to hear that threat, I felt the choice on how to handle things was mine to make. Could I have handled it differently? Yes. Would it have been easier to have just called the police? Probably. Have I learned from it? Definitely! Something that definitely needs correction though is that the incident was not recent, it was 2 years ago.
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celwyn
Circle of Knights
Posts: 23
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Post by celwyn on Nov 9, 2013 16:09:06 GMT
As the parent of the child who was threatened in the Duchy of Crystal Groves, I would like the opportunity to clear things up about that specific event. First of all, it is honestly my fault that the police were not called in nor an investigation done. I did not notify the Officers of our park at the time of what had occurred because he was already going to be suspended for other reasons. The way that specific player was talking made it seem like he had no interest in coming back, even after his suspension would end. We are also a very close park (my son has his Mom, Dad, Aunts, Uncles, Grandparent, and Godmother at our park) and I was a little concerned that the news of the threat may cause someone to think (or react) emotionally rather than rationally at the time. With those things in mind, I decided not to bring it up to the Monarchy. As one of the parents of this child and the only person to hear that threat, I felt the choice on how to handle things was mine to make. Could I have handled it differently? Yes. Would it have been easier to have just called the police? Probably. Have I learned from it? Definitely! Something that definitely needs correction though is that the incident was not recent, it was 2 years ago. First of all I can understand someone saying something shocking and not knowing how to react. Second of all... keeping the situation quiet because of the fear of vigilante justice takes the responsibility off of adults to act like adults. Acting as your own police force would absolutely make the situation worse. That's why you call in the actual police or at least bring it to the Amtgard monarchy so they can make that call without it getting to the point of a witch hunt. That's why Goldenvale is looking seriously at how to apply this new Code of Conduct, so it can be fair, equitable and actually make people feel safer at Amtgard. Other people - including me - have brought their children to that park. An established procedure of recording threats before action is taken helps prevent the rumor mill and provides documentation that can be used when you have to call in the legal authorities. It may have been 2 years ago, but the player in question was banned recently and we only heard about it recently. |
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Hitorimono
New Member
I'm only here for the popcorn.
Posts: 8
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Post by Hitorimono on Nov 10, 2013 14:14:11 GMT
I can't remember all the disussion but I will post what I do remember. I know that your husband took notes on all of the Pros/Cons and Darva had mentioned that he had forgotten a list of such at home as well. IMO it would be good to post those lists here. You know, in the interest of good communication from your park officers. |
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Hitorimono
New Member
I'm only here for the popcorn.
Posts: 8
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Post by Hitorimono on Nov 10, 2013 14:47:13 GMT
So, if someone is "suspected" of committing a crime you will call the police? It sounds like this will happen even if you don't have any proof of any crime actually being committed. Is that the case? I couldn't give a straight answer regarding if KCG supports BC joining because we don't have a stance one way or the other. If BC wishes to join KCG, we will assist them to gather the info they would be required to provide and place them on the next Kingdom Althing. IMO, it isn't the job of the Kingdom to convince Amtgard chapters to join our Kingdom. Either the group wants to join us or not. Actually, BC didn't vote to stay with GV. There were two votes. The first was "If GV doesn't boot us out, do we stay with them instead of petitioning CG?" That was unanimous. The second had two portions, "If GV kicks us out, do we petition CG?" and "If GV kicks us out, do we remain a freehold?" It was unanimously for the first option. JJ did have a condition for his vote, "that they remain, at least, at barony level."  I just want to make sure the full information from the Althing is out there. |
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darva
Kingdom Officers
Posts: 3
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Post by darva on Nov 11, 2013 1:14:14 GMT
Mono,
You are simply wrong in your assumption. If you read what you wrote, we voted on what WE (as in BC) wanted to do. The first vote was whether or not we wanted to stay in GV (as opposed to leaving GV ahead of time and seeking sponsorship from CG). The second vote was IF GV decided to pull sponsorship whether or not we wanted to seek sponsorship from CG (as opposed to going Freehold).
As for calling the police: Yes. If you suspect a crime has been committed based on whatever you have seen/hear/experienced/etc. then YES you contact the police. No one-REPEAT-NO ONE is qualified to act as a law enforcement agent in Amtgard. Even people who ARE cops/PIs/etc. are not qualified because they are NOT acting the capacity of their profession. It is NOT our job to conduct criminal investigations. That's the job of the REAL WORLD authorities.
As for the pros and cons list, you heard it there. There wasn't anything new from the list that you heard being created. Adding winky faces or other BS doesn't detract from drama you are putting out here. The fact is you were hardly paying attention (you were making a chain necklace during our Althing). For example, it was NOT unanimous to go to CG instead of becoming a Freehold. At least one member voted for Freehold. Not 100% your fault in missing it since the overwhelming majority did voice to go to CG if needed, so I did not call the opposing vote.
I'm very curious as to why you were at our Althing. You provided no information, and honestly didn't seem to be able to care less about what or how BC was doing. I was glad to see you there because I thought you would have acted in the capacity of a representative of your kingdom. This is why I opened the floor to you to give any information. Unfortunately the general feeling was that CG would be less than supportive from a kingdom monarchy level. This was based on your perceived apathy. The only time you seemed to care about what was being said is when the child safe issue was brought up. You said everyone was banned. In response I asked about Kail Baranthus (Scott Logan). When you didn't know, I told you about how he is a registered child sex offender and he was running games with young children without supervision at one of the Feasts, and that when I mentioned it to the CG leadership I was told it was okay and such. Your response was,"Yeah, and how many years ago was that?" My response was,"Okay, let's go recent where this summer your Kingdom was notified about Randani, and you guys did NOTHING until a freehold AND BL took action before you finally did something. You never contacted the authorities, and certainly didn't tell anyone in the kingdom what was going on." Your response was simply to shrug. You then went back to making your necklace.
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darva
Kingdom Officers
Posts: 3
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Post by darva on Nov 11, 2013 1:37:18 GMT
Also, Dame Celwyn's husband has a name and identity that is not reliant upon his relationship with her. His name is Sir Yoshi (or Don to his friends). He's a knight of the Flame, and Arch Duke. He has been king of your kingdom, and a strong positive influence for Amtgard in this region for over a decade. It is very disrespectful and shows your ignorance to simply refer to him as "...your husband..."
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Post by Brother Fredrik on Nov 11, 2013 17:35:58 GMT
One quick note on this. I personally and most (if not all, but err on the side of me forgetting someone) people I've spoken too on the matter have agreed that GV would not attempt to remove BC's sponsorship. You've done nothing wrong that would justify it and no one is looking for "excuses" to do so. The vote was simply that we believe it would be better for BC if they were sponsored closer to home. If they are not "wanted" by KCG or they them selves to no want to leave, then I think I can speak with confidence that the GV Allthing will not be handing you walking papers unless there is some drastic change.
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Post by Sir Nexus on Nov 11, 2013 23:05:01 GMT
I will also point out that, per the GV corpora, it would be inappropriate of us to jump directly to removing sponsorship without demotion to shire-level first and without clear documentation of wrong-doing by the Bitter Coast.
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celwyn
Circle of Knights
Posts: 23
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Post by celwyn on Nov 12, 2013 1:04:19 GMT
I will also point out that, per the GV corpora, it would be inappropriate of us to jump directly to removing sponsorship without demotion to shire-level first and without clear documentation of wrong-doing by the Bitter Coast. So why is it up for vote in November? Nov 3, 2013 20:28:29 GMT -5 sirnexus said: Our November Althing is slated to take place on Saturday, November 16th. It will begin promptly at 1 p.m. So far, things to be voted on are: *Revisitation of sponsorship for Arrantor due to lack of TaCD compliance *Transferring the Bitter Coast to the Kingdom of Crystal Groves * Cessation of Goldenvale from funding Great Eastern or Fury Possible items to be discussed are: * A Corpora change to include an administrative procedure for the Monarch to carry out the Code of Conduct * A new, streamlined, Corpora. Please reply below with your submissions so that I may add them to the official docket. |
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Gymir
Kingdom Officers
Posts: 51
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Post by Gymir on Nov 12, 2013 1:49:24 GMT
Probably because someone in Nashua wanted to discuss it and asked that it be added to the agenda.
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I just want to make sure the full information from the Althing is out there.
